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Blizzard1289

aka Blizzard

Bureaucrat Admin
  • I live in Earth-1218
  • My occupation is Wiki Writer
  • I am Male
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  • Hi, Blizzard, I was wondering why you deleted the pages for the Navarian and Bruidian ambassadors. This passed your "rule of thumb" (per the Manual of Style) as it has easily enough non-redundant information to fill more than a page. Your stated reason for deleting the pages, that the information can be found in the episode page, is not a reason found in the Manual of Style.

    I get that we both want to keep the place neat and tidy and without trivial pages like Kermit the Frog, but going around deleting major characters that are crucial to the episode plot is probably not in the best interest of the Wiki. If anything, we are missing pages for significant characters here. Also, I would really appreciate it if you let me know when you delete pages I spent significant amounts of time creating and researching.

    I'm sorry this probably came off a bit sharply worded, but I am a bit shocked the pages were erased.

    Warm regards,

    UPD

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    • Revamping the Manual of Style I don't think would be necessary. The reason why many of these policies are left ambiguous is due to the knowledge that we wouldn't be able to foresee all future situations that might arise over the years which could violate the principles the Manual laid out (Remember Spirit of Law - Word of Law). The check and balance of this being that the community has the power to question or force the staff to undo any decisions that might've made in regards to page deletion. Which is exactly how I believe we should proceed here.

      Our discussion is going in circles. I pleaded my case, you pleaded yours. As per the Manual (and General Guidelines to a lesser extent) the next step would be to create a community consensus and have the other members read over our comments here and ultimately decide if the ambassador pages should stay or not. Someone I'd like to especially give input would be User:FishTank as he theorized a huge chunk of the current paradigm this Wiki uses as its standard for pages.

      If the community believes the Navarian and Bruidian ambassadors need pages and disagree with what I've said here, I will back down and restore them as they were. However, likewise, if they do agree with me I assume you'll handle it the same. Either way, the community should get the final say over this matter.

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    • The consensus is up if you want to check it out.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Hi there! Would you mind if I added a link to the first and second season in the local nav?

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  • Hi, there. It's great that you're working on pages, adding important material as we are in that long stretch before the next season. However, I had to delete the page on Alien Bartender as it does not conform to the Manual of Style - specifically, the rules regarding page length. If you feel strongly that there is enough material, perhaps we can revisit it. Take care.

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    • I would like to hearby challenge this decision,

      My rationale being the Alien Bartender, despite being unnamed, is a recurring character that appears throughout the series and would have enough information to fill out our necessary content quota (one page worth of content). I will not undelete the page unless my opinion gains more support with the community, but I would like to discuss this in more detail.

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    • It feels really awkward deleting a page created by a fellow admin but here goes, haha: 

      I'm open to correction, but Alien Bartender appears twice and only briefly - grabbing drinks from the bar and turning around. It's on par with some other recurring, red-link characters like Technician Jennings. As it stood, the article was much shorter than some deleted articles like Man in Hat (the Kelvic man in a nefolo in Majority Rule). If you feel you can write a page's worth of content, I would be happy to discuss this more.

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    • It's not awkward, pages can be deleted as your discretion, but the decision can be challenged by any user. You're handling this exactly as you should.

      With that said though, I did put a stub template there for a reason. I had plans to expand his history section and add more to the page. It wouldn't have been a particularly large article but I think once it was done there would've been enough to justify its own existence.

      If you still don't think even with that, the page would be necessary I can back down on this matter.

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    • I'm certainly open to being proven wrong, but at the moment, I do not see how the information could reach a page without repeating information or writing overly long sentences simply for the sake of length.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Ok, the subtext could say she was lying about the dark matter storm ;)

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    • That's not strong enough evidence to acknowledge on the Wiki page. Pria disappeared & Ed responded by saying time is open to change. There was no ambiguity there or any implication that Pria lied about the Orville's original fate.

      "Subtext" alone, suffice to say, isn't a reason to add speculation onto the articles.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Hey, I noticed that you have removed the redirects for the positions and removed any links to ranks. Just wondering what's up.

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    • I imported all the information from those pages to Ranks and Positions and then deleted everything else as it was redundant. We discussed a couple weeks ago that a lot of the pages weren't long enough to warrant their articles and would be better off just getting a section on Ranks and Positions.

      If there are a few pages that you think are relevant and should be undeleted, I'd be willing to hear about it.

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    • No, I am on board with that. I was asking about removing all the links to the Ranks and Positions page.

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    • Feel free to remove some the links if think they;re distracting. I just replaced all the redlinks with a redirect to Ranks and Positions. I think it works well for some pages instead of not linking anything at all.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Hey Blizzard, this is Ellen at The Paley Center for Media. Seth and most of the cast of The Orville will be in person at PaleyFest LA on March 17. We wanted to make sure that your community knows about this great cast event. 

    We have made some Google Museum art for the cast, which they and the show have shared. I wanted to share it here for your community (maybe as a blog post?), but wanted to check in with you first since it's a little different from general fan posting.  We also have a video from when Seth and the cast were at PaleyFest Previews last year that I thought would be of interest to your followers. Let me know if these are ok to share with your community. Thanks! Ellen

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    • Hello Ellen,

      Thank you for contacting us with this offer! What you're suggesting is entirely welcomed in our community. We pride ourselves on not just being a database for information, but a community for fans to also converse and share their passion for The Orville.

      My only request would be that any Paleyfest related content be posted within the Blogs & Discuss sections of the Wiki, as the Editing Space is mostly reserved for the documentation of in-universe events, the only notable exception being biographies for Cast and Crew members.

      Everything else on the Wiki though is completely open for any Paleyfest posts you'd want to share with us.

      Noting the relevancy of this event, I'd even be willing to advertise some of this on the Wiki's front page in order to help spread the word for any Orville fans that might be interested.

      If there's anything else you need or questions you might have, my message wall is always open.

      - Blizzard.

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    • Hi Blizzard, this is all great to hear. We have a similar philosophy that outreach be in service to the fan. We never want a fan to miss an opportunity for something he or she might really want to be a part of, just because they didn't hear about it.   Do you need us to make a piece of art to put on the wiki front page? If yes, please send the spec dimensions for what we should deliver.

      I will work on the posts tomorrow. Ellen

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    • I'm glad we both see eye to eye on this. :)

      About the artwork, you can do whatever is the most convenient on your end. Art, a blog, video, etc. Any of those would work great. The specs aren't super important on Mediawiki sites like FANDOM, we can alter it to fit best with the page by editing in source mode. Don't worry about it!

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    • The maximum width we allow for Main Page elements is 664px.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Hey, per our conversation with FishTank, I wrote a rough draft re-write of LaMarr's page to show you how I thought we could write character pages. I was thinking that topics could be more dynamic, discussing the most important story arcs relevant to each character. I think the format is pretty engaging. What do you think?



    http://orville.wikia.com/wiki/John_LaMarr/Draft

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    • Should we make a new template for articles in need of revising? Something like: This article was written under the old article guidelines. You can help by updating it.

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    • It wasn't my first choice, but if this is what the community wants I will respect it.

      About the tenses, I'm in favor of what FishTank suggested. Everything that happens before Old Wounds is written in past tense, everything that happens during the recorded seasons should remain in present tense. I added that to the original Manual of Style because I've been on Wikis that insist on the usage of past tense and it's kind of awkward to edit like that at first and sometimes the pages read strangely.

      Present tense makes the paragraphs and descriptions seem more "in the moment" telling it like it is in the moment. Not like a history textbook would by referring to it as a recorded event being reported on.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • I made some adjustments to streamline the character pages for readability. They can get very long over the course of a series, and I thought we might combat that a bit before it got out of hand. See the suggested changes at Klyden/Draft (or the "diff"). Let me know what you think.

    UnionPointDropout should feel free to weigh in on this as well.

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    • I find FishTank's idea very persuasive from the point-of-view of a reader. When I go to other fandoms, I am going to read about the lore and the breakdown by episode is simply overly specific. If keeping the specificity is of the essence, then mandatory footnoting or in-line citations could accomplish that and sacrifice none of the readability.

      On the other hand, what if this show gets renewed for many more seasons and the information for each main character grows very long? The headers "Story" / "History" are both great for general purpose information, but by that point I'd imagine that we will need to keep the Story/History section as the general outline of a character's arc while compiling most information within categorical sections (e.g., "Ed's relationship with Kelly"). We kind of do that already, but are we prepared to make a change later on or should we plan for it now?

      Finally, FishTank's final point that we don't need episode descriptions for characters when their presence was unnotable is convincing. There's just not much to say about John LaMarr in Pria, and describing his few lines of dialgoue is simply risking the reader's attention span for the sake of exhaustiveness. 

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    • Just to clarify, you're both in agreement that we should remove the headers and information that aren't significant to the character pages?

      Ok, I'll get to that as soon as possible.

      Another question though is that I notice over these last few months we seem to have gotten a lot of new editing policies. Should I maybe update the Manual of Style soon to accommodate them?

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  • Hey, I'd like the ability to edit categories, if that's all right.

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    • Thanks. My point is that, as far as I know, I can't make them as a Content Moderator because categories are not considered pages.

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    • Anyone can make categories, no special tools required!

      All you have to do is click create a page (like you'd normally do) and name it Category:Positions for example, and once you click publish you'll have your own category page you can add to whatever's necessary.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Have you noticed that 'Sargus 4' is actually 'Sargas?' 

    We need a total overhaul! Aghhh

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    • Sargus 4's spelling is contradictory. It was originally spelled Sargas on the wiki, but the Official Orville youtube channel spells it Sargus. Seems like Fox uses both terms interchangeably, and to avoid a lot of unnecessary work I'd say we just leave it for now and maybe just leave an addendum acknowledging the spelling difference.

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    • A FANDOM user
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